Why Each System Must Be Considered in Isolation

I will admit, in the early days of this site, I thought that data from one system could help you understand what you are in the next. There are many people who think this way. But I have come to understand that when systems are looking at different things, you cannot use what you are in one to understand what you are in another.

I’m going to use the three main systems I consider in this blog: David Kibbe’s Metamorphosis, Carol Tuttle’s Dressing Your Truth, and David Zyla’s system.

DK prioritizes the yin/yang balance in the body. Clothes go on the body, not the face or hands or feet. Shirley MacLaine may have a cute, pixie-ish face that would lead some people who don’t understand his system well to put her somewhere else, but her body is all FN, so that is what she is.

Carol looks at the face. Your face will reflect your energy type. Your body type doesn’t matter. You will not always look great in the same things as your sister in the same energy type as you. You will share a color palette and some general preferences, but the exact perfect style for you is individual.

DZ looks at coloring, voice, and all-over vibe (???). His system is the hardest to DIY. Everyone gets their own set of recommendations. It is more like a common thread running through everyone in a certain archetype, and more broadly, a season.

Let’s look at Audrey Hepburn. She is a Flamboyant Gamine, 4/1, Playful Winter.

Does this mean that every 4/1 is also a FG and a Playful Winter? Of course not. It means that she has the body of a Flamboyant Gamine, the face of a 4/1 (reflecting her energy profile overall), and the combination of coloring/voice/anything else that makes David Zyla see Playful Winter for her. You can be a 4/1 and a completely different Kibbe Image ID and Zyla archetype. They are all using different criteria for assessment, and your unique combination of types across different systems is part of what makes you a unique individual.

So keep an open mind, and don’t try to make correlations across systems! Follow the unique process for each system that their creators have provided.

20 Comments on Why Each System Must Be Considered in Isolation

  1. Angie
    June 2, 2019 at 1:06 am

    I think you are right. If there should be a universal truth in this, I think perhaps each system has a piece of that truth. I am a 4/1 and very much a Kibbe romantic (possibly theatrical romantic, haven’t nailed it yet). I have enjoyed looking for clothes in the 4/1 colors and patterns and fabrics, with the romantic silhouette. This seems to bring me better results than just dressing 4/1 without regard to my shape.

    Reply
  2. Cat
    June 2, 2019 at 3:34 am

    This is a great point, and it explains why I have so much trouble navigating different systems, particularly those which tie physical characteristics to personality. According to Zyla, I am some kind of summer, and the closest archetype that works is Sunset Summer (the Elegant Bohemian); at the same time, I have always felt that gamine style clothes suit me best, not only in terms of physical shape, but also energy. I know less about Tuttle, but I imagine she would type me as a number 2, although it would be problematic to connect this with colouring (I’m presuming 2 is similar to the summer archetypes of Zyla and Caygill), since I know people also typed as summers whose personalities are totally different.

    Reply
    • stylesyntax
      June 2, 2019 at 11:35 pm

      I wouldn’t tie DYT to Zyla and Caygill, for the reasons I explained in the post. I wouldn’t presume that T2 is Summer because it’s not called that. I definitely know people who have been typed by Zyla in a certain season and then not given the energy type that would presumably correlate by Carol. I know T3 Summers, T4 Springs, etc. I wouldn’t limit myself so quickly if you feel like your instincts are pointing you in another direction. I’m not sure what is leading you to Summer and T2, since I don’t know what you look like, but I would keep an open mind, especially if it doesn’t seem to feel “right.” Sunset Summer isn’t an archetype I know well, since I knew it would never be me, but I could see the colors lending themselves more to T3 than T2, for instance. And if you feel like a higher movement (which is actually something I have seen with Zyla Summers in DYT), I wouldn’t discount that.

      Reply
      • Jane
        June 3, 2019 at 6:30 am

        I like this post. Interesting about Kibbes system.
        One thing though, as DYT is known to be almost a direct, but simplified copy of old systems/books with 1 being copied from the spring descriptions, 2 the summer etc, surely this means her system is related to seasons and she has just copied older / original systems and blurred the lines (confusing matters) by implying any DYT type can be any season (when this was not what the sources she copied from said).

        Reply
        • stylesyntax
          June 4, 2019 at 3:00 am

          I debated whether or not I would approve this comment, frankly, because I’m not sure if I want to invite this negative energy into my space. Carol is very clear on the origins of DYT in the chapter on the subject in It’s Just My Nature, the idea of four temperaments have been around at least since Ancient Greece, and rather than simplified, Carol’s system goes way beyond the people who just focus on style and affects all aspects of your life. The style aspect of DYT has made great strides forward in the past couple of years as well. Why would it matter what other systems say versus how she has developed the information? I do not need people to bang this drum in this space; I have done thorough research myself. (And I would certainly take the conclusions on this matter from the main resource I have seen that makes this claim with a giant heaping helping of salt, for reasons I am not going to get into here…)

          Reply
  3. Elizabeth Stewart
    June 2, 2019 at 8:09 am

    Yes, I completely agree, as I have discovered for myself. In Kibbe I’m an R (TR as secondary, my analysis said); DYT 2/1: and Zyla – well, I’m not really sure, but his colour formulae have worked out very well for me. Can’t find the archetype, but the Summer Classic seems to fit, even though that does not reflect my Kibbe very much. Thank you for all your posts; they are really thought-provoking and so well informed.

    Reply
    • stylesyntax
      June 2, 2019 at 11:31 pm

      Unfortunately, I would be so sure of being an R in Kibbe, especially if the analyst you went to said TR is secondary. 😉 I mean, you could very well be, but it would not based on the reasons used by an analyst who isn’t David. I haven’t seen one yet who actually understood his work, unfortunately. Especially if they’re saying that TR is secondary–they are both yin and curve dominant, but what separates the two is that TR has a tiny bit of yang–and if you had that yang, you’d be TR and not R. There are no leans within Kibbe. You’d either have soft yin, or soft yin and a little bit of sharp yang. It is unfortunate that people can’t just make up their own systems, rather than spread misunderstanding. :'( I encourage everyone who has gone to a stylist claiming to type people in Kibbe’s system to keep an open mind when it comes to his system, since you really have a one-in-ten chance (or maybe less, even, since they get it so wrong) of being the type the analyst said you were. I mean, if you’re happy with what you got and it helps you, that’s great–but the way they work with his system has nothing to do with the way he works or the way he uses it. So it’s again something I would consider in total isolation from anything you learn about Kibbe’s system. 🙂

      You can be any combination of Image ID and Zyla Archetype–as I said in my post, they are looking at different things, after all! And since Image IDs aren’t styles, you can generally figure out how to make the two work in harmony, if you so choose.

      Reply
      • Elizabeth Stewart
        June 3, 2019 at 4:28 am

        Thank you, this is really helpful information. I wish Kibbe had a practice in the UK, where I now live. I confess I did not see any Yang at all in my face or figure when the Kibbe-trained analyst typed me. Am very happy with the flowing, draoed Romantic lines, and get loads of compliments. So I am going with that. Again, many thanks. I always wondered why the TR alternative made me feel as though I was dressing up in someone else’s outfit, and now I know.

        Reply
        • stylesyntax
          June 4, 2019 at 3:04 am

          You were misled by misrepresentation, sadly–Kibbe-trained analysts do not exist. 🙁 And certainly anyone who actually had been trained by David, if he did in fact train people in his system, would not tell you that TR is a backup for R!

          Reply
  4. Daga
    June 3, 2019 at 8:35 am

    Very interesting post. I must admit I only know Kibbe from “second hand” and perhaps I misunderstood his system because I always thought that face, hands and feet matter a lot. You’ve wrote: “Clothes go on the body, not the face or hands or feet.” In my mind certain cuts or style choices work for certain body types also because they resonate with face, hands and feet. For example Gamine looks wrong on Natural or Dramatic because the proportion of clothes make their bigger hands, feet or facial features look large or” chunky”. It was one of few things I thought intuitively understand – maybe because of first hand observation. For ex. my Soft Dramatic mother, spectacular and feminine, can pool off almost anything, even sweet Gamine looks… except her hands and feet look massive in Gamine proportioned clothes.

    Reply
    • Daga
      June 3, 2019 at 8:44 am

      Sorry for language (I found a funny mistake), I rarely write in English.

      Reply
    • stylesyntax
      June 4, 2019 at 2:55 am

      If your mother is a Soft Dramatic, that’s why clothing proportioned for small, narrow, mixed long-and-short bodies look odd on her–not her hands. Audrey Hepburn had big feet, especially for the time period. And look at this picture of FG Debra Winger showing the size of her hands: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debra_Winger#/media/File:Debrawinger1984.jpg If she had the body of Paulette Goddard, she would not be able to wear Sophia Loren’s outfits, regardless of her hands/feet/face. Her body would not fill them out.

      Reply
      • Daga
        June 4, 2019 at 7:05 am

        Thanks, that’s very informative. You’re posts and comments about Kibbe made me understand a bit more. Although the system is still too complicated for me, at least I got rid of some misconceptions and myths about it thanks to you. It’s really hard to understand each system and not seek similarities or draw links between them – from practical point of view, when you try to use all of them (all your knowledge) for yourself. Good thing to remember it shouldn’t be the starting point, because it leads to misunderstandings. At this point I’m very overwhelmed by all options, and my desire to look my best. I decided to be more intuitive in my choices, which may not be fully coherent whith any of the systems I came across. I only stand by my clear/bright spring colours but not nearly as strictly as before. I decided that feeling amazing and enjoying myself in what I wear is enough. In the end it all works together better than trying to fit some idealistic image and be a 100% of certain style or category.

        Reply
        • stylesyntax
          June 5, 2019 at 6:13 pm

          It’s really not that complicated… people make it complicated by trying to “crack” it. Really, all you have to do is understand yourself. Intuition is really a great place to start.

          Reply
  5. Janey
    June 4, 2019 at 4:33 am

    Are you saying that this source is not accurate?
    ***url removed***

    I am asking as I am confused by your comments, when I do not think I said anything negative, or to deserve such a hostile response.

    Reply
    • stylesyntax
      June 4, 2019 at 4:46 am

      I removed the link, but yes, I would personally not trust that site, based on my own experience and seeing the inaccuracies that abound there generally. My own research has been used there incorrectly, to the point where I had to email and ask for corrections.

      I only cover resources on my blog that I personally find valuable. If I cover a system, I have researched it thoroughly and find it valid. So if I blog about something, I’m aware of things like the dirt people try to dig up. It’s just not necessary to bring it to my attention. (The ones I don’t cover are the systems and creators I do not like…) When people respond with negative comments about the systems I choose to write about, which I have already researched thoroughly and have helped me in some way, it does put a dark cloud over my day.

      Reply
      • Janey
        June 4, 2019 at 5:16 am

        Thanks for your explanation. I didn’t know any of that and am very grateful for you drawing my attention to it. I read your blog in a hope to learn and always enjoy it and find your writing style easy to understand. Please know there was no offence meant, I was genuinely confused and hoping and eager to learn more from you. I am grateful for the clarification.

        Reply
        • stylesyntax
          June 5, 2019 at 6:14 pm

          Thanks! I’m always happy to answer questions 🙂

          Reply
  6. B
    August 8, 2019 at 8:35 pm

    In DYT I am and have been satisfied with my self-typing as a 1/2. It makes me happy, matches my history and present self/look, and the colors match how my coloring has usually been seen, anyways. I am glad you have found your home in DYT that makes you happy and feel like you! I know you felt your FG-ness a long time ago, so that extra piece must help a lot.

    I used to have a FB presence and own Kibbe’s book,so am familiar with Kibbe, though wasn’t around by the time he joined the groups, unfortunately. Though sometimes I hear time to time some updated info that has been helpful in reconsidering how I look at his types. I think it was on your blog I saw you said some who sometimes struggle a lot with finding their Kibbe type have an easier time with their results/rec’s if they see David Zyla (who I had a wonderful session with and have a lot of insight into how to dress myself).

    I really don’t know my Kibbe type. I have it narrowed down, and learning of a lot of the new information since Kibbe joined FB, and how incorrect the community information or “help” was, I am reconsidering my original guess for myself. We will see. I am not in a rush.

    I can’t stand when someone gives their inexperienced and random opinion *as fact* about what a person (celeb or client) really is in a system or promising they can teach without giving the information about how they can learn from the creator or relevant analysts themselves. I see that most in Kibbe, too.

    I think it is by far the worst when they actually charge! They can just create their own system if this is their passion, or say they’re not sure why an analyst decided something or know some details. Or at least state something is a guess, not advertise something as a fact and explain why it is a fact.

    Pretending they have all the answers, let alone charging, is the worst. I just can’t believe some act and talk like such an authority to others like this…

    Reply
    • stylesyntax
      August 9, 2019 at 7:53 pm

      I don’t really think that you have an easier time with Kibbe if you see Zyla, but I do think Zyla’s approach works better for the way some people work, since he gives more concrete recommendations. It can be used to fine tune your personal expression within your Image ID, I suppose.

      It truly is the worst when people charge for typings, or just spread bad information… It’s especially bad when I find out they’re in the Facebook groups and have access to the correct information. :/

      Reply

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